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The Kicks Log at Kicksology.net

~ From Friday, July 11 ~

Friday Morning Quarterbacking

Since I heard about Nike's deal to acquire Converse this past Wednesday I've been thinking about why (don't ask me why I spend time thinking about these things, I just do)?

At first my biggest question was why now as, even though Nike is paying a fire sale price for Converse, they almost certainly could have paid even less a couple of years ago. My guess as to why they didn't do it then is that Nike didn't think, at the time, that the soft market for shoes would continue for as long as it has (the average selling price of athletic shoes has actually dropped over the past couple of years). They may have also thought that the "lifestyle/retro" fad would have faded away by now. As for why now, it was almost certainly because Converse was planning to go IPO later this year. As a public company, Converse would have been a much more complicated and much more expensive acquisition.

One of the most popular justifications for the acquisition I've heard propounded by financial analysts is that Nike acquired Converse to shore up their "lifestyle/retro" offering, which is definitely a good rationale given Converse's street cred. But my own opinion is that it has as much if not more to do with Nike wanting to compete more effectively at the low-end of the price spectrum -- particularly in the hoops space, which is the single most important category in athletic footwear.

Over the past couple of years competitors like AND 1, New Balance, and, to a certain extent, adidas, have been slowly eating away at Nike's market share by offering aggressively priced products (meaning products in the $50 - $75 range) that provided decent performance. Nike has always offered at least a few items at those price points, but it's not where they want to be and, given the marketing costs of the company, it's not where they can afford to be.

Aggressively moving that far downmarket would also have a negative impact on the high-tech, high-performance, high-end brand image that the company has spent so much time and money cultivating over the past few decades.

Enter Converse, which lives at the lower end of the price spectrum (the most expensive hoops shoe they currently offer is $70) and has for a good while. Nike could use the Converse brand to wage a battle of attrition against companies attempting to compete and establish an identity based largely on price performance (i.e. AND 1, DaDa, Avia) while keeping the Nike brand clear of the fray.

If this is indeed what they have planned I'd say that the company most immediately in jeopardy is AND 1. I say that because they're a company that's sort of stuck in the middle at the moment. They established themselves on price, but have been pushing upmarket for the past few years and now have a roster of NBA endorsers they need to pay for (in addition to the whole streetball tour). That leaves them in a precarious position, vulnerable to a squeeze by Nike from above and by Converse from below. Companies like adidas, Reebok, and New Balance have enough money, enough of a following, and are diversified enough to weather pretty much any storm, but the smaller outfits like AND 1, DaDa, and Avia may soon find themselves in rough waters. For AND 1 in particular, this next year and a half could very well make or break the company. They have some hot products coming down the pike, but will it be enough?

What do you think? Was it a pure "lifestyle" play, or was it more about acquiring a "budget" brand, or was it something else entirely? Do you care and does the Nike acquisition make you more or less likely to buy a Converse shoe?

32 Comments So Far ~ Post Your Own
Shotcaller posted this at 7:27 AM - July 11, 2003

I think it was a strategic plan by Nike. You outlined the theory well, Prof. I just hope that And 1 and Dada can stick with it, they are young companies that have brought some exciting products, I would love to see more from them.

J from Fear Always Remains posted this at 8:29 AM - July 11, 2003

It seems that Nike is following the model that Estee Lauder uses in the cosmetic industry. The Estee Lauder brand serves the high-end clientele, while Clinique--a brand owned and operated by Estee Lauder--serves the lower-end, younger market.

I believe that Converse will become the budget Nike brand, but will do so in a way that allows Converse and Nike to be distinct, individual brands, each with their own marketing identity.

I'm puzzled as to where the Jordan brand will fit into this, since the only competition the Jordan brand seems to have comes from other Nike products. Perhaps Converse will be Scion, Nike will be Toyota, and Jordan will be Lexus?

numba1stunna posted this at 8:42 AM - July 11, 2003

i agree with you... it seems like nike's pulling a microsoft and trying to just dominate the marketplace - which wouldn't be a bad idea, considering a lot of other manufacturers (reebok, can you hear me?) seem to only be interested in aping the outward style, if not the performance of, nike's shoes...

hmm... it was interesting what you said about nike "not being able to afford" to sell their shoes at a lower price - i mean, it seems like they have so much money...

it'll be good for nike to sell some lower priced shoes - i remember when chris webber bounced because they refused to drop the price on his shoe (since retroed by nike, of course), but i hope they don't just do that to kill off some comp and then re-raise the prices...

one last point - i'm with you on being tired of the constant retro-ing of shoes (i still have, and refuse to ever, buy a pair of air force ones - which are way, way, way overpriced for performance) - and you know what's messed up, is that "forces" are way cheaper up in the 'burbs than down here on the south side of chicago - when it should theoretically be the other way around...

Dipset posted this at 9:41 AM - July 11, 2003

well what I can say is companies like Dada and RBK are coming out with kinda crappy shoes in their b-ball markets but they sell theyre casual lines more
so thats what I yhink nike has done by buying Converse given themselves a brand to sell 50 to 70 dollar lifestyles shoes.

Black posted this at 9:55 AM - July 11, 2003

Prof K,

Well, like everything else these days, it's all about the benjamins.

Maybe if they made some converse stuff more coumfortable I'd consider getting some pairs...

PB posted this at 10:32 AM - July 11, 2003

When Reebok first announced its partnership w/ Jay-Z, they said that it was something that Nike would never do.

Like them or not, the S. Carters are the fastest-selling Reebok shoes ever, and Reebok is hoping for similar success with its upcoming G-Unit Collection (50 Cent).

There is no question that co-opting (?) Hip-Hop / youth culture is profitable. Would a Nike-owned Converse brand agree to such partnerships?

P.S. Prof. K: props for bringing the big news to the table; I wouldn't have known about the merger if not for Ko.

PB posted this at 10:44 AM - July 11, 2003

Peace

To numba1stunna: I think what the Prof. meant was that Nike can't afford to sell shoes at lower prices because they spend so much money advertising and marketing them.

The primary reason they have 'so much money' is because of the high prices they charge.

TheAnswerAI posted this at 10:54 AM - July 11, 2003

Nike is a huge company that has been there since Jordan started wearing his Air J's.. even longer... i think nike knows what it's doing.. they know that they make nice, expensive, functional shoes and maybe they want to implement that with the converse line.. anyway.. i really don't like converse... and the last nike pair i had was the foamposite pippens.. those were tight.. now i sport answer iv and v... hopefully rebook will turn it around next season with AI's shoes.

on another note.. any of you guys know to to clean reebok classics?? i got the white and navy blue logo with the silver outline.. i'm having a hard time cleaining the sole and the leather upper.. thanks.. lates..

C Hart posted this at 1:59 PM - July 11, 2003

I wish converse had remained seperate, especially since I've been trying to boycott nike since my air max team zoom 2's popped. But it just got harder. I bought a pair of And 1 silky smooths early in the boycott and slipped all over the place. So I don't really care if they disappear.

Which retro nike were c-webb's? I vaguely remember liking his shoes.

It's likely that prices for AF1's are higher on the south side because demand is higher. The suburban kids do copy the urban style, but urban folk always seem to have brand new shoes which would indicate they purchase more frequently.

Erix posted this at 2:02 PM - July 11, 2003

Nothing can bring down AND1. Period. Too many streetball followers.

PB posted this at 2:08 PM - July 11, 2003

Erix, I think Streetball was huge before AND 1 co-opted it, and it will still be here if AND 1 falls (although I wish them nothing but success). For instance, how many people at the Rucker tournament wear AND 1s?

Birdman posted this at 2:14 PM - July 11, 2003

Ithink Nike bought out converse to use the King James license that Converse originally owned, and on the bright side Nike will make money off Converse by such ways as the Weapons and Chuck Taylors. And with all these other shoe companies easting at Nike's share of the business this will help them keep an even more steady track and keep hold of the shoe market for years to come at a consistent rate putting out quality shoes and hopefully a quality price.

Filipino Baller posted this at 2:38 PM - July 11, 2003

Off topic, Prof K., check this out: http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2003/0711/1579469.html
JKidd will sign with the nets and they also get Zo...

Baller21 posted this at 2:44 PM - July 11, 2003

If you look on nba.com, on the right side where it lists the stories... it tells you that Jason Kidd has agreed to resign with the nets.

tarvuz posted this at 2:48 PM - July 11, 2003

Prof K. Why don't you go check out the factories where these shoes are made and give us a report. That would be cool(seriously).

)og posted this at 2:53 PM - July 11, 2003

Prof K presents some very solid theories. All of which are logical and completely believable. But maybe you guys are giving this a bit too much thought. I'm sure Converse wouldnt' have sold its rights to Nike if it didn't see an advantage on its part. This purchase will benefit both companies a great deal as both Nike and Converse have something the other company doesn't have (Converse-old school appeal, style. Nike-technology, marketing). In the end, both companies working together can become something far greater than these two corporations separately.
Peace.

Vichi posted this at 2:58 PM - July 11, 2003

I hope And 1 can squeeze through. They're a great new company that produces high quality affordable products that have a market. But I never liked Converse or the retro movement and Nike's name won't change that aspect.

PB posted this at 3:08 PM - July 11, 2003

I agree with )og about the win-win situation and I second tarvuz's idea about the factories, although something tells me it's not too feasible. I don't see any companies just giving upthat kind of access. Sometimes the truth hurts.

ooga booog posted this at 4:43 PM - July 11, 2003

I will buy whatever shoes are cool, parent company's don't matter to me. I heard somewhere that converse had some kind of rights with the name King James which Nike wants for obvious reasons, but it sounds bogus

crestedbutte posted this at 6:21 PM - July 11, 2003

the sad part is that brands like and1 solely depend on the american market, which has two big fishes (adidas and nike) and a lot of smaller ones (and1, avia, dada...) with rbk between them.the big fish will always eat up the smaller one by knockin' them off bussiness or just by payin' for it.the small ones have no chance.and1 cannot compete with nike or adidas in the highly profitable international market.due to high costs of taxes and transportations from the u.s. and1 has to charge more for the kicks than nike, because nike has a bigger,better and cheaper delivery system.i live in spain and we only get five or six and1 models (i wouldn't even dream about findin' dadas around here!)if i want to buy the and1 desire mid i have to pay the equivalent of 130$!!! furthermore,they don't sell many shoes here because the brand is relatively unknown.

numba1stunna posted this at 6:50 PM - July 11, 2003

hey c hart - if you check the issue of kicks with darius and q on the cover (as clips, reppin' jordan brand), you can see all of webber's kicks - i had two pairs of webbers' shoes back in the day as a kid - the air unlimited carnivore, and the retroed air max sensation (which used to be the air max cw - and used to feature chris's "2" instead of the ubiquitous swoosh on the pulltab)

hey pb - i know what the prof said about "the high cost of marketing" - but do you realize how little each pair of shoes costs to make and just how much nike marks up their prices? sure, they perform and look good, but it's kind of like macs to pcs - if you want to pay more for the stuff that looks cool, go ahead... but if you can get the same performance for less money, why drop the extra dough?

i hope and1 pulls through too... i still think the stephon marbury ones and twos are some of the best balling shoes, especially for outdoor ball... and if anyone from and1 is reading this, a re-release of the twos in silver would be one love...

Brand1 posted this at 8:30 AM - July 12, 2003

i like And1, they seem to release a lot of stuff over here in enlgand mostly through footlocker, though i havent yet bought a pair of their shoes as i trust nike and am not convinced that And1 shoes are ready for my feet yet. But i want them to grow and hope they pull through this difficult tiem and if they dont i hope Nike buys them cos Nike is my favorite company and just imagine it, nike would have the market locked down.

Summer posted this at 11:17 AM - July 12, 2003

This is my first time posting on the Kicks Log...how exciting.

Anyway, in my opinion I think buying Converse is a good move by Nike. Converse has athletic shoes, yes, but they are primarily known for their "lifestyle" shoes, like the Chuck Taylor's that so many people wear. Nike on the other hand is known more for their sport shoes. Converse will allow Nike to branch out to the other markets and expand their business, appealing to more than just your average joe athlete but also to (yet this is sterotypical) your average joe punk kid (ie: Jack Osbourne), who rocks Converse 24/7.

Kardinal posted this at 9:35 PM - July 12, 2003

I think the only real threat to Nike is Adidas and partially Reebok who needs to improve a hella dissapointing I3 series. Reebok is mostly popular on the style and the team players, ex. Iverson, Franchise, Rose, K-Mart, Baron etc. smaller competition like the Dada series might get bought by Nike, but I doubt And 1, And 1 has got alotta respect from NBA players like Larry Hughes, Shawn Marion ,Stephon Marbury, Big Ben, and the recently departed KG. And 1 is getting more popular, every single little sh!t running around the YMCA is wearing them.

RTTR posted this at 12:23 AM - July 13, 2003

yeah i agree with birdman and thats what i was gonna say about this whole thing - i heard that converse owns the rights to the name "King James" and now that Nike has converse they can use that as Lebrons big clothing/shoe line.

Honestly i have followed lebron fairly well and i havent heard him called thatbefore i heard this converse thing. it just seems a little unusual that they would just hand lebron his nickname like that. usually people give him the name and so far most people just call him lebron. i dont kno tho i still like the whole king james name and that idea - i just hope that he will step in and fill the shoes that nike and everyone else are making for him. oh well i really dont care either way on the whole converse/nike deal - i just hope that nike stops trying to get that whole retro thing and sticks to high quality shoe preformance. well we'll see and Prof K will keep us up to date.

crossover326 posted this at 5:53 PM - July 14, 2003

i just think its part of nikes plan to rule the world!!!!!! lol

Quest posted this at 7:42 PM - July 14, 2003

Converse owns rights to "King James"? I've never heard about this - who or what has Converse used it with? I bet this is just one of those stories that have surfaced with the whole lebron hype..

to black:

on the subject of comfortable - if you're talking about basketball shoes, then I think cons's problem is that they're TOO comfortable. During the last 2 years I've tried out most of the basketball shoes (some "lifestyle"-stuff, too) they've had on sale and also some samples that never made it to the store.. I must say that the whole line of basketball shoes they had in 2001-2002 were way too soft for any serious baller. They were comfortable to walk in but lacked of any elementary ankle support that a baller is usually looking for when in a basketball shoe. They've gotten a bit better though - this spring they had few models that were almost okay and right now I'm rockin some stuff that should make it to the stores in autumn. If it wasn't for the Cons's star & logo, I'd say they've totally copied AND1 for their next season's models. they're STILL a bit soft, though they're better now..

in general, I think Converse is actually quite popular in europe, particularly in eastern europe where people really can't afford decent nikes.. For example here in Estonia - converse's best hoop shoe this spring (the "league leader", which was also the most expensive) cost $80-100, the nike flight lite's & flight wings were both at $160, and1 KGII & adi t-mac2 at $180, the nike shox limitless were around $230 and the latest jordan's were around $280-300.. people really can't afford them, so they'll settle for the cheaper ones. I have to get mine from internet or take a boat to Finland if I need some decent shoes at a reasonable price..

most people don't think shoes are that important, so they'll wear whatever they can afford here.. I know the same story should apply to Latvian, Lithuanian and Polish market for example - maybe to Russian, too. and look at the world map - how f-in big is the Russian market? Definitely a wise step by Nike since Converse brand has gotten a LOT more popular during the last few years. at least in eastern europe..

AJ balla posted this at 10:18 PM - July 14, 2003

I heard that part of the reason Nike bought Converse was because Converse had the rights to the name "King James." Now Nike can put that name on the LeBron's (which by the way, suck majorly).

drue posted this at 5:03 PM - July 26, 2003

AJballa, you have seen Lebron's shoe??

Unbeatable posted this at 12:40 PM - December 30, 2003

Lebrons shoes are pure sickness

pipe hitter posted this at 12:44 PM - January 16, 2004

Does anyone know where I could get ahold of a pair of the Nike Air Carnivore ball shoes? They came out when the Fab Five was at Michigan, they were navy and gray.

adriangutierrez posted this at 12:26 AM - February 27, 2004

The Nike Air Unlimited (worn by David Robinson in his 1994 season and the fab five) were some of the best shoes ever made and designed. Nike should think long and hard about re-issuing the shoe

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